Art De La Guerre

Zoltan

Your cavalry unit advances on my pike unit and my cavalry unit. You manage to ZOC both my units with your unit. My pike unit is 0.5UD from your unit; my cavalry unit is 0.9UD from your unit.

In my turn, I elect to charge you with my cavalry unit. I then conform my cavalry unit to your cavalry unit, displacing my pike unit to one side. Am I now permitted to move my pike unit into corner to corner contact with your cavalry unit and in support of my cavalry unit?

Page 53 Conforming and displacing units.
Second paragraph first sentence: "A unit in support can be displaced only if it remains in the position of support."
Second paragraph (new) last sentence: "A friendly unit that has been displaced in this way may not move during its movement phase."

Does the movement prohibition in the last sentence of the second paragraph:
A. ONLY apply to units in support that were displaced but remain in support, or
B. Apply to ALL displaced friendly units regardless of whether or not they were in support prior to being displaced?

If A: then my pike can now move into a support position
If B: then my pike are prohibited from moving because they were displaced by my own cavalry. If so, it seems a bit odd that just one of your units can thwart my numerical superiority by simply zocing my 2 units knowing that I can only get one into contact in my turn

belinconnux · Post� le: Lun Mar 05, 2018 12:16 pm Sujet du message:

The correct answer is B.
"My" cavalry unit use a misposition of your two unit for zoquing both.
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Ramses II · Post� le: Lun Mar 05, 2018 12:27 pm Sujet du message:

The short answer is “no”.
Once displaced in this way, the unit may not move.

However, the nearest unit can charge the enemy first and the furthest unit then move up in support, so the situation is not usually as bad as you describe.

But pike are unmnoeuverable, so if they are facing the wrong way and ZoCed on a flank, they can only turn on the spot and can neither charge the enemy nor support their friends. Which is the whole point of cavalry using this tactic to harass pike . . . Wink

Zoltan · Post� le: Lun Mar 05, 2018 7:20 pm Sujet du message:

Ramses II · Post� le: Lun Mar 05, 2018 9:43 pm Sujet du message:

If you review the French official ammendments, they do say in effect

“A friendly unit that has been displaced may not move during its movement phase."

Good catch about either unit being displaced by the other, though there is always the option for one unit to exit the ZoC first before the other charges, which would allow a third unit to move into support afterwards.

Zoltan · Post� le: Mar Mar 06, 2018 12:34 am Sujet du message:

Ramses II · Post� le: Mar Mar 06, 2018 12:51 am Sujet du message:

Yup

daveallen · Post� le: Mar Mar 06, 2018 7:57 pm Sujet du message:

Zoltan · Post� le: Mar Mar 06, 2018 9:04 pm Sujet du message:

daveallen · Post� le: Mer Mar 07, 2018 12:31 am Sujet du message:

You're right, my apologies.

I'm claiming exhaustion caused by a near fatal bout of man flu Embarassed

Having read the rule again and the Interpenetration rule on page 43 and the FAQ some problems occur to me.

The first is about LI that have been interpenetrated in a charge and moved back to make space for the chargers. Their displacement isn't technically for a conform so what stops them moving in that turn?

Secondly, what exactly do you think the priorities given in the 3rd Bullet Point mean?

Zoltan · Post� le: Ven Mar 09, 2018 3:17 am Sujet du message:

Let's all play Barkerese! A fun game for consenting adults in public.

As a self-proclaimed pedant, I think you do have a point. There does indeed appear to be some inconsistency between:

1. displacement required to allow a unit to conform (p.53). In this case, we have established (above) that the displaced unit CAN NOT move during its movement phase

2. displacement required to allow "adjustment of positions" (p.43). In this case, it appears a unit being passed through CAN move normally. FAQ p.8 says so in relation to displaced LI (the specific case posed) but presumably this would also apply to other troop types? The FAQ explicitly says that this type of displacement is "not considered a movement".

Happy days.
Very Happy

lionelrus · Post� le: Ven Mar 09, 2018 8:58 am Sujet du message:

To come back in particular position related, it's better to charge with phalanx, as Cv would probably evade.
If Cv do not, your own Cv can't move but you fight at +2.
If CV evade, you do not push your own CV, so your Cv can move.
Sorry for my English, i try to polish it in british tournaments!
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madaxeman · Post� le: Dim Oct 28, 2018 5:23 am Sujet du message:

Ramses II · Post� le: Lun Oct 29, 2018 1:31 am Sujet du message:

As Zoltan says,

A unit that is displaced by interpenetration (p43) may move after the interpenetration
However P53 has been amended to say that any unit which is displaced by a friendly unit contacting (and Conforming on) an enemy may not move after being displaced.
This includes LI that have been interpenetrated in order to make contact with the enemy.

Could you explain further the concern about displaced LI.
Interpenetration (p43) has never been FAQd (as far as I am aware). When Light troops are passed through by heavier troops they are displaced backwards, but may still move after the displacement provided this was not done as part of "conforming and displacing units" (p53). And the same is true for heavier troops (eg Bowmen by Swordsmen).

madaxeman · Post� le: Lun Oct 29, 2018 10:25 am Sujet du message:

The question that arose was whether the LF are displaced at the point / because they are interpenetrated, or as a result of having to be displaced backwards to allow the unit charging through them enough room to contact the enemy.

If LF are displaced by the interpenetration they can (explicitly) move as per that rule.[/i]
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