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Attempt to conform as a group
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions V3
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Ramses II
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
MessagePosté le: Mar Déc 12, 2017 2:28 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Still being discussed, so not yet.
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AlanCutner
Tribun


Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014
Messages: 706
Localisation: Scotland
MessagePosté le: Ven Jan 12, 2018 2:16 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Still no answer on this yet. We're still having queries on this at our club. So to re-state some of the queries

HI group A-E charge X-Y. They use their full move distance to contact so no question of any units moving further forward.


Front edge of unit D contacts the front corner of unit X, which is the only contact. Unit D can now conform as a single unit or as a group. The question is how it conforms, or attempts to conform, as a group.

1. As earlier in the thread what do units A-C do as at least A and B cannot wheel enough (max 1UD allowed) to maintain group integrity.
2. Unit E would have to wheel backward to maintain group integrity. And its not clear how it could move to a support position.

If all the units have to move individually it would make it easy to hold up an enemy line by have units positioned at angles to that enemy (bad memories of DBM being rekindled.....).

At the moment I have absolutey no idea how to play this, or how it would be ruled in competition.
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Ven Jan 12, 2018 4:29 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I would rule it as follows.

Charging player option 1. Whole group stops at D contact and fights as if conformed. So C and Y effectively are in support. E is also in support.
Charging player option 2. D and F conform to X. Charging group is broken. C (assuming it cannot conform 1 UD) no longer will support but Y does support. A,B,C are displaced if needed.

If C could conform 1 UD to Y then option 2 is A and B are left out.


That's how I would rule it with what I know at this moment. Clearly option 1 is the cleanest for game play.
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Luddite
Archer


Inscrit le: 15 Nov 2017
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MessagePosté le: Ven Jan 12, 2018 9:30 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
"Charging player option 1. Whole group stops at D contact and fights as if conformed. So C and Y effectively are in support. E is also in support."

This looks like a good solution.

But the confusion still stands.
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Ramses II
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
MessagePosté le: Ven Jan 12, 2018 11:36 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Sorry guys, no answer yet other than my guidance from earlier;
  • As they are HI at the end of their movement allowance, I don’t think they can conform as a group for two reasons (see below).
  • D conforms on X - this is mandatory
  • Units may not conform into support further than their movement allowance, so A-C definitely stop where they are.
  • To conform E must make ‘normal’ moves (slide, wheel, turn, etc) but this looks like it might end up diagonally ahead of D with respect to its conformed position, so it may not conform on the flank of D.
    (It will now be behind the flank of X ready to attack, so probably does not want to conform anyway Wink )


If A-E were MI or cavalry, the response would be different
  1. Moving individually
    • If MI, units A-C would be able to advance forward 1UD into contact with Y, allowing C to conform on Y
    • If Cavalry, units B (and possibly A) would also be able to conform by wheeling forwards as a group to support C

  2. Moving as a group
    This would prevent conformation in these circumstances . . . Since the line A-D would be expected to slide / wheel, anchored on unit D, by a maximum of 1UD ending up in front edge contact with the target X (and possibly Y) which is obviously not going to happen!




The key point here is that, in my understanding (to be confirmed), the act of conformation must end up with the units correctly aligned after the 1UD manoeuvrings. Since the angle between the two lines is quite large, a group conformation will not be possible for the entire line, though pairs of units may ‘group conform’. Hopefully that helps until we get more definitive guidance. 
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions V3
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