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ZOC & Timing of Charges - Did we get this right?
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions V3
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Three
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 20, 2017 12:40 pm    Sujet du message: ZOC & Timing of Charges - Did we get this right? Répondre en citant
I've had a search through the RQs sub forum, and haven't seen this query explicitly asked, despite ZOCs being regularly featured. This thread is the closest -

http://www.artdelaguerre.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4020

The situation is as follows - Pike unit facing down has a friendly MC unit on it's rear right, also facing down and at approx. 30 degree angle to the pike's front.

Opponent (phasing player) has a block of 2 MI swords/Impact facing up. The MI are behind the pike's front edge, so are legal to flank charge with at least 1 of the MI units.

The MC behind the pike have both MI units in its ZOC, the one closest to the pike by a fraction and the other almost completely to the MC's front.

We decided that -

1) If the phasing player firstly elects to charge the MI unit closest to the pike into its flank, then this is prevented because of the ZOC of the MC, even if the other MI unit subsequently charges the MC?

2) However, if the phasing player elects to firstly charge the MI mostly in front of the MC into it, this puts the MC into melee and therefore cancels the MC's ZOC, and the MI closest to the pike is therefore allowed to flank charge the pike unit?

Did we get it right?
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madaxeman
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 20, 2017 3:09 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
To paraphrase the latest FAQ, you can't charge through a ZOC to hit another unit. Protecting flanks like this is one of the key things that ZOC's do.

Once a unit is in combat it no longer exerts a ZOC.

So, sounds like you are right
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daveallen
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 20, 2017 5:05 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Except that if the MI hits the MC it will have to conform. It will do this by shifting the other MI out of the way.

If a unit is shifted in order to allow a conform it cannot make a further move in that phase.

Don't have rules with me, but it's in there somewhere
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Longtooth
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 20, 2017 6:34 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hi Dave,

It's not explicitly mentioned in the rules, but is stated in the technical committee forum.

Jesse
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AlanCutner
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 20, 2017 6:46 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Confused by that last answer. Is it in the FAQ or amendments? r is there forum thread with a technical committee ruling? Don't see why anything else counts.

Saying this as a sometimes umpire. Its hard to make a ruling without something clear to refer to.
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Longtooth
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 20, 2017 7:23 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Alan,

It was originally announced on the ADLG technical forum but is also included on the official list of amendments which relate to page 53.

http://www.artdelaguerre.fr/download/FAQ/Official%20amendements%20for%20L%E2%80%99Art%20de%20la%20Guerre%20Rules.pdf

Jesse
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Three
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 20, 2017 7:48 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
daveallen a écrit:
Except that if the MI hits the MC it will have to conform. It will do this by shifting the other MI out of the way.

If a unit is shifted in order to allow a conform it cannot make a further move in that phase.

Don't have rules with me, but it's in there somewhere


In this case there was sufficient room between the MC and the rear of the pikes to allow the charging MI to conform without requiring the 2nd MI, the one nearest the pikes, to be displaced.

It is, however, interesting to know that a required displacement would have prevented the charge of the 2nd MI.

So it appears we got it right, though possibly more by luck than judgement.

Thanks to all for the replies.
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daveallen
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 20, 2017 10:07 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Three a écrit:
In this case there was sufficient room between the MC and the rear of the pikes to allow the charging MI to conform without requiring the 2nd MI, the one nearest the pikes, to be displaced.

It is, however, interesting to know that a required displacement would have prevented the charge of the 2nd MI.

So it appears we got it right, though possibly more by luck than judgement.

Thanks to all for the replies.

Except that the ZoC of the MC is identical in size and shape to the base of an MI unit. Thus if both MI were in the ZoC then the one that didn't charge must have been displaced.

Simple geometry, innit? Cool

E2A Unless, of course, the MC evaded.

Dave
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Three
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 21, 2017 9:44 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
daveallen a écrit:
Three a écrit:
In this case there was sufficient room between the MC and the rear of the pikes to allow the charging MI to conform without requiring the 2nd MI, the one nearest the pikes, to be displaced.

It is, however, interesting to know that a required displacement would have prevented the charge of the 2nd MI.

So it appears we got it right, though possibly more by luck than judgement.

Thanks to all for the replies.

Except that the ZoC of the MC is identical in size and shape to the base of an MI unit. Thus if both MI were in the ZoC then the one that didn't charge must have been displaced.

Simple geometry, innit? Cool

E2A Unless, of course, the MC evaded.

Dave


What does E2A mean ?
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daveallen
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 21, 2017 10:31 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Edit to Add

Sorry about that. It's standard on more fractious forums where you're likely to have your words thrown back at you. Probably unnecessary here. Embarassed
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Three
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 21, 2017 11:34 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Got you, no worries.
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