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Move to Flank or Rear Support
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions V3
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Nostrebor
Archer


Inscrit le: 20 Déc 2014
Messages: 62
MessagePosté le: Ven Sep 08, 2017 5:52 pm    Sujet du message: Move to Flank or Rear Support Répondre en citant
As I read the rules a charge is required to contact an enemy unit in the front, flank or rear if the enemy unit is not contacted to the front.

Is the following true?

If the enemy unit is contacted on its front by a friendly unit then a unit moving to contact the enemy to the flank or rear with its front is not doing charge move. This would mean that it could wheel, slide or turn in the middle of the move not just the beginning (which is the only place you can do these things in a charge move).
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1537
MessagePosté le: Ven Sep 08, 2017 9:03 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
p 50 left side
under "charge"
last sentence.
Paraphrased, a move to contact to give support is not a charge.
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Nostrebor
Archer


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MessagePosté le: Sam Sep 09, 2017 3:18 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hazelbark a écrit:
p 50 left side
under "charge"
last sentence.
Paraphrased, a move to contact to give support is not a charge.


What if the friendly unit to the front then breaks off (in same turn). Does the unit on the flank fight with its first turn charge bonuses (if it has any, for instance impact)? I would say no, but I am not sure we have played it that way. I think it would get the +1 flank attack bonus.
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1537
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 11, 2017 2:13 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Go to
http://www.artdelaguerre.fr/en/regles.php
click on
Flank attack on flanking unit

Is that what you are asking?
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plefebvre
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 30 Déc 2009
Messages: 1166
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 11, 2017 3:11 pm    Sujet du message: Re: Move to Flank or Rear Support Répondre en citant
Nostrebor a écrit:
As I read the rules a charge is required to contact an enemy unit in the front, flank or rear if the enemy unit is not contacted to the front.

Is the following true?

If the enemy unit is contacted on its front by a friendly unit then a unit moving to contact the enemy to the flank or rear with its front is not doing charge move. This would mean that it could wheel, slide or turn in the middle of the move not just the beginning (which is the only place you can do these things in a charge move).


Yes , you are right. It is not necessary to make a charge to contact enemy in order to provide support to a friendly unit already engaged in melee with that enemy. You can arrive in contact by making a normal move including any legal manoeuver ( Wheel , slide, turn ).

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Nostrebor
Archer


Inscrit le: 20 Déc 2014
Messages: 62
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 11, 2017 8:15 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hazelbark a écrit:
Go to
http://www.artdelaguerre.fr/en/regles.php
click on
Flank attack on flanking unit

Is that what you are asking?


No, the second (vs opening question) asks about what B can use as combat modifiers give the following:

A and B are friends. X is an enemy unit

A and X are fighting each other on each others front (i.e. boring normal combat).

In the middle of the turn B moves into contact with X's flank (causing a hit).

Later in the turn A disengages.

What combat factors does B use. I think it would get attacking flank but would not get any first round charge bonuses since the move to contact was not a charge. For instance if B was impetuous it would get neither impact (+1) nor furious charge.

Start of Turn
A
X <-B

Middle of Turn
A
XB

End of Turn
A

XB
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1537
MessagePosté le: Mar Sep 12, 2017 1:49 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Ah.

Good question. I think during a game the answer has always just to been to assume its a fresh charge. This assumes the unit moved via a charge into this position. But now that you mention it...hmmm.

So if it moved via a move then no it would not get those charge abilities.

But should it, in either case? Let me go dig through the rules.
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Ramses II
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
MessagePosté le: Mer Sep 13, 2017 1:31 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Here the timing of the moves by A and B is critical.

The answer to the question as stated would be 'No', B does not get charge bonuses because at the time it moves it is moving into support.

By definition this is the continuation of a melee from a previous turn.
If B moves first, it is supporting A by contacting the flank of X causing an immediate disruption loss on X. When A disengages, X fights at -1, B fights using its normal factors +1 for being on the flank.

If A were to disengage first before B arrived, the B would then be counted as charging but X would not suffer the disruption loss for being simultaneously in contact with the front edge of two enemy units, though it would be fighting at a base factor of '0' (losing Impact etc).
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