Art De La Guerre
Bienvenue sur le forum de discussion de la règle de jeu l'Art De La Guerre
 
FAQFAQ RechercherRechercher Liste des MembresListe des Membres Groupes d'utilisateursGroupes d'utilisateurs S'enregistrerS'enregistrer
ProfilProfil Se connecter pour vérifier ses messages privésSe connecter pour vérifier ses messages privés ConnexionConnexion
Komnenan Byzantine
Page 1 sur 1
Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet
 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Army lists
Auteur Message
Pyrrhus17
Gladiateur


Inscrit le: 14 Sep 2016
Messages: 36
MessagePosté le: Dim Nov 27, 2016 7:22 pm    Sujet du message: Komnenan Byzantine Répondre en citant
Does anybody that comes up with a usable Komnenan use infantry in that list. The later list seems to always be Knights with light horse sort of a feudal Parthian list and the early list is similar but with impact cav replacing some of the Knights . I was a bit surprised that the hvy spearmen only come as mediocre . ANY help would be great Thank ahead of time for any suggestions. Patrick Very Happy
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
ethan
Signifer


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 347
MessagePosté le: Dim Nov 27, 2016 9:08 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Even the couple of Varangians are useful for helping crack open the enemy line. Something like this:

CiC - Brilliant
2 Elite M Knight Impact
2 M Knight Impact
4 LC bow
1 LI Bow

Sub - Competent
1 Elite M Knight Impact
1 M Knight Impact
2 LC Bow

Sub - Brilliant
2 Elite H Sw Armor 2HW
1 Bowmen
2 LI Javelins
1 LI Bow
2 M Knight Impact
1 LC Bow
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Pyrrhus17
Gladiateur


Inscrit le: 14 Sep 2016
Messages: 36
MessagePosté le: Dim Nov 27, 2016 11:55 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
So I am guessing that the 3rd group sets up in the center typically .I was thinking you would have bought at least two bowmen to be able to pass through with the  Varangians. Have you used this force I would be interested in how it does?
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
ethan
Signifer


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 347
MessagePosté le: Lun Nov 28, 2016 1:17 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Corps III doesn't need to go in the center, that is why it has knights and LC of its own, these give it the ability to manage (if not overly ambitious) one end of a line.

Two bowmen are probably more than is needed, the ability to pass through bow with swordsmen is largely a useless one in my experience. The bow is there to motivate enemy and help support the mounted in the command.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Pyrrhus17
Gladiateur


Inscrit le: 14 Sep 2016
Messages: 36
MessagePosté le: Mar Nov 29, 2016 2:03 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
So ok interesting I would love to here more . Let me know if you have any batreps . Helps me with the painting list LOL .
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
PaulByzan
Javelinier


Inscrit le: 04 Oct 2014
Messages: 16
Localisation: Massachusetts, USA
MessagePosté le: Lun Déc 05, 2016 8:32 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Pyrrhus17 a écrit:
So ok interesting I would love to here more . Let me know if you have any batreps . Helps me with the painting list LOL .


OK, the first thing is that the Komnenan Byzantine list in ADLG is historically inaccurate You are absolutely correct about the lack of regular spear armed infantry. Even the most rudimentary study of the sources indicates this. For example, the Emperor Alexios during his retreat from Philomenium in Asia Minor from the Turks deployed his infantry in a mobile square backed by archers and slingers who kept the Turks under a constant fire to keep them back. Inside the square besides the Varangians, Byzantine and Latinikon cavalry were thousand of Christian refugees being brought back to the Byzantine liberated western Asia Minor. This would require a huge number of native Byzantine infantry, more on the order of 12 to 24 BGs.

As for the Varangians 2 BGs is ridiculously small. There should be 8-10 Varangian HI 2HW BGs with 2-4 allowed to be elite and all should have the option to be armored. They formed the main defensive force in Constantinople against the 4th Crusade. 2BGs would have been swamped.

Oh well enough gadflying. Ethan's advice is the best you can do with this list. IMO he's the current master of putting together effective army lists.

Paul G
_________________
PaulByzan
Strategos of the Basilios
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Envoyer un e-mail
Gareth Jones
Javelinier


Inscrit le: 23 Fév 2017
Messages: 12
Localisation: Chester, Uk
MessagePosté le: Mar Mar 28, 2017 10:32 pm    Sujet du message: Medium cav? Répondre en citant
Sorry to hijack your thread, but seems sensible to add here. I'm pondering a change...
I'm assuming that in a Feudal/Medieval theme, you'd be likely to meet a load of heavy armour knights.
With that in mind, presumably I'd need to take the souped-up medium cav bow rather than the lights? Or are the light cav there as nuisance or bait for impetuous knights?
If that's the case, who's waiting behind - spears?
The change I'm thinking of is to drop all spears, bows and take two corps of medium knights ( later kavallarioi/latinikon + medium vardariotai) and an allied corps of later crusaders ( foot only - crossbows and heavy armour spears). Maybe a couple of light cav bow somewhere
Or is Ethan's list the killer one? ( which would be a shame as I'd already painted 5 x kavallarioi - they'll do for Nikephorians...)
_________________
Brand new to ADLG
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 29, 2017 4:03 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Pyrrhus17 a écrit:
So ok interesting I would love to here more . Let me know if you have any batreps . Helps me with the painting list LOL .


I've fought against this list a few times.
Mainly this is a medium knight type theme list.
It is also the "attack without mercy"(TM) and with great speed. It has a +4 initiative which means its almost always going to be even more or better to be attacking.

The Light screen as opposed to MC means that they will absorb all the enemy missile fire. Enemy LI and LC will largely be overwhelmed and forced to retire. The speed of the attack means that this army could delivery as many as 8 MKnights into your heavy line on turn 3. Think about that. From your very first move unless you deployed back, you are not able to double move. If you deployed a Corps mildly apart from your others it is likely to be overwhelmed rapidly. Unless you are ready to counter this aggression, you will be on a back foot until you role a string of very good dice several turns in a row.

Too many people deploy middile-ish of the table. Since these folks deploy 2nd they plan to come down one side.

The Varagians he throws willy-nilly at enemy spear or pike or even into terrain. They are mean and tough enough that they can hold on against superior numbers a lot. He expects them to die but fix the enemy long enough for the knights to come through.

Against an Elephant army he can dismount the LC to LI and have stuff to fight elephants while knights try to blow past the MI elephant supports.

Its an impressive force.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 29, 2017 4:09 pm    Sujet du message: Re: Medium cav? Répondre en citant
Gareth Jones a écrit:

I'm assuming that in a Feudal/Medieval theme, you'd be likely to meet a load of heavy armour knights.


Well a theme that has medium and heavy knights is really not going to see people opting for medium knights in any numbers. I mean you may get an Il-khan with two MKn.

My observation that in any theme with Medieval heavy knight options, people mostly counter program with good foot or elephants. Most of the late medieval armies have too few LI and LC or if they do they don't fit well.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Gareth Jones
Javelinier


Inscrit le: 23 Fév 2017
Messages: 12
Localisation: Chester, Uk
MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 29, 2017 6:01 pm    Sujet du message: Thank you Répondre en citant
Thanks Hazelbark,
My first 4 games have ended in 2draws/defeats on points, and 2 heavy defeats. Ethan's army looks a bit like my first attempt at a Komnenon Byzantine list, although I'd concentrated the medium knights on the wings. I did a bit of maths on the Varangians last night, and they look a no-brainer to me ( as they probably were to the Komnenons).
_________________
Brand new to ADLG
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
ethan
Signifer


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 347
MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 30, 2017 2:26 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
If you play this style you have to be a) aggressive and b) willing to leave your flanks in the air. You protect your flank(s) by not giving the enemy sufficient time to exploit their relative vulnerability. You might leave the Bowmen a UD behind your Varangians as a speed bump, but you really want to win before the enemy can decisively overwhelm your flanks.

The goal is basically to smash apart an enemy Corps/army section then turn on them about the same time they turn on you - but you will have killed off more enemy troops in the process giving you a decisive advantage. It is not a style of play for the timid...
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Gareth Jones
Javelinier


Inscrit le: 23 Fév 2017
Messages: 12
Localisation: Chester, Uk
MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 30, 2017 4:35 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Thanks Ethan,
So the c-in-c's corps races up with the LC in the lead, the LC hopefully deals out some disorder, then the Knights charge in? Meanwhile the other two corps move up more slowly, with the varangians and other knights helping out with the killer blow.
The best news of all is a) I already have most of the figures and b) total cost using Outpost is @ £30. Cheap as chips and less than most DBA armies.
_________________
Brand new to ADLG
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
ethan
Signifer


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 347
MessagePosté le: Ven Mar 31, 2017 11:36 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
You probably need two corps (which ones depend on foe) to win. You have to really commit to make it work
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
  
 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Army lists
Page 1 sur 1
Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet Toutes les heures sont au format GMT

 
Sauter vers:  
Vous ne pouvez pas poster de nouveaux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas éditer vos messages dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas supprimer vos messages dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas voter dans les sondages de ce forum