Art De La Guerre

[Snowcat]

Having been reading about the evolution of Assyrian chariots from 2-horse to 3-horse and finally 4-horse with a different cab, and then looking at how these behave in AdG (note: my rulebook still isn't here yet but I have the QRS and relevant army lists! gotta start somewhere!), I was a little bemused at the interpretation of the 3-horse chariot that came in under Ashurnasirpal II.

From what is understood of this modification to the 2-horse chariot, it supposedly added a 3rd horse as an outrigger harnessed to the team on one side, i.e. not attached to the yoke, so providing no pull and if anything making the chariot more of a liability when driving, especially at speed. Yet (and correct me if I'm wrong) in AdG this seemingly dodgy mod transforms the Light chariot bow to Heavy chariot impact. Note: there were still only 2 crew at this time.

Now I'm trying to see how Light chariot bow aren't a bit pants vs heavy chariot impact being rather tasty...!

Does anyone have any experience of using either in the Assyrian list, or greater knowledge concerning how the 3-horse combination might have worked?

(Note: the Assyrian 3-horse chariot is not believed to have had an extra pole added to create a triga with each pole on either side of a central horse, as the Assyrian illustrations of their 3-horse chariots do not show the yoke extending over the back of the outside horse. i.e. the yoke ends on the horse on the other side of it, the middle horse.)

Cheers

[Hazelbark]

I think you are right that the 3 horse is not pulling the chariot.

My guess, I think the author probably bent the options to make things work.

To not let the Assyrians get Heavy chariots until 745 BC would make their rise before that against others with HCH harder to explain. But I don't think the lists are rigorous in the historical defense of each possible item.

The game interaction is HCH will slaughter the LCH if they contact. The Light Chariots need to shoot and evade.

Essentially this is like a MC Bow vs Medium Knight interaction.

The light chariot shoots at a 0 vs the heavy chariot which is a 1. About a 1 in 4 chance before you determine any elite or support shooting.

[Snowcat]

Browsing the source material for the AdG army lists, it appears to be a *3-horse and 3-crew* reason for the change from Light chariot to Heavy chariot. And yes, there are quite a few contemporaries/adversaries with Heavy chariots.

Re-reading the relevant section in 'Armies of the Ancient Near East 3000BC to 539BC' by Nigel Stillman, it does not mention the 3rd crewman appearing first from 745BC (Tiglath Pileser III) - something that was stated in 'Ancient Armies of the Middle East' by Terence Wise (Osprey 109). It describes the 3rd crewman as part of the 9th century chariot evolution. Additionally, 4-horse chariots are also mentioned for this period, 'restricted to elite units'. These 4 horse chariots still used the 2-horse yoke, attaching the outer horses to the yoke's upturned ends (so not adding to the pull). All of this before the 8th century box cab and proper 4-horse yoke.

So that would seem to better explain the how and why of things both from an Assyrian historical perspective and in AdG.

I'd represent it like this:
2-horse (2 crew) chariots are Light chariot bow. Some can be elite.
3-horse (3 crew) chariots are Heavy chariot impact. Some can be elite.
4-horse (3 crew) chariots are Heavy chariot impact elite.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers

[Snowcat]

Out of interest, when you get a split listing in AdG like this:

Chariot with 2 horses*
Light chariot bow 9 4-12
upgrade to elite (max 4) +2
Chariot with 3 horses (after 890)*
Heavy chariot impact (max 1/2) 11
upgrade to elite (max 4) +2

Is that potentially up to 8 elite chariots (4 light, 4 heavy)?

Cheers

[Hazelbark]

[Hazelbark]

[Snowcat]

Thanks for the reference. Tamas Dezso's 2 volume work seems pretty rare. Found it on Amazon.co.uk but couldn't tell if it was for both volumes or just the first.

Do you have it yourself?

Cheers

[Hazelbark]

I do have it but got it in a very anomalous way. I think it was sent to me accidentally.

[Snowcat]

Re the total number of Assyrian chariots that can be upgraded to elite (either 4 or , now that my rulebook has arrived it looks like the total is still limited to a maximum of 4 elites.

p.78: "If the troops available change to a different type at a certain date..."

*check*

"...the numbers allowed to be upgraded to elite is not cumulative."

So that's a max of 4 elite chariots split between the 2 types allowed.

Is that how you read it?

Cheers

[Snowcat]