Art De La Guerre

Nostrebor · Archer Inscrit le: 20 D�c 2014 Messages: 62

If a single element has an enemy less than 1 MU to its front it can do a command pip free charge.

If all elements of a group has enemy less than 1MU to its front can they charge as a group for free or must they charge individually (the biggest difference being how pursuit rolls are made and the possibility that a group of 2 could charge 1 unit if it is in front of both).

AlanCutner · Post� le: Jeu Oct 08, 2015 9:45 pm Sujet du message:

I don't have the rules in front of me. But from memory the rule states a group can charge for free if any of its component units have an enemy less than 1UD ahead. Therefore the charge can be by group if all component units have enemy less than 1UD ahead.

Ramses II · Post� le: Ven Oct 09, 2015 10:06 am Sujet du message:

P22, Spontaneous charge, 2nd para;
A unit, or the group that contains the unit, can charge an enemy that is at least partially situated 1UD or less directly in front of it without expending a Command Point.

So you do not need to pay for this movement, and do not need to pay for any other units of the 'group' that lie outside 1UD from the enemy (though you may decide to do this for tactical reasons).

Zoltan · Post� le: Sam Oct 10, 2015 11:24 pm Sujet du message:

So does that mean all a group needs to do is get one of its units within 1 MU of enemy and all its component units can charge 'for free'? Presumably each unit within the group needs a valid target - your unit can't just make a charge move 'into the brown'?

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1537

The one unit that has someone within a UD must make a valid charge including ZOC restrictions. The rest of the group does the same. Note group that does not contact can or must continue the charge beyond point of contact depending on troop type.

Ramses II · Post� le: Dim Oct 11, 2015 9:54 pm Sujet du message:

So an example

XXYYZZ

AA
..BB
....CC
......DD

Assume that ABCD are a group located obliquely from the enemy XYZ, with A inside 1UD from one of the enemy units.
The entire group ABCD can charge because A is with 1UD. However, D may not have enough movement capacity to complete the wheel before A moves into contact. (Sorry the diag is a bit poor, but is intended to show a partial wheel followed by a move into contact, leaving D behind)

XXYYZZ
.AA
.....BB
.........CC

......DD

Then the units conform up to one UD, which may leave C out of contact.

XXYYZZ
AABB
........CC

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1537

Generally I think you are correct.

Lots of specifics in your example that could change the nature of the outcome. But your intent seems correct.

some but not all points to check:
The charge must be against the unit ZOCing the end unit
C are you counting the extra UD on p 53 ?

lionelrus · Post� le: Mar Oct 13, 2015 11:05 am Sujet du message:

are AA one or 2 units?

Are all ABCD facing xyz or not?
_________________
"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain.

AlanCutner · Post� le: Mar Oct 13, 2015 1:55 pm Sujet du message:

I'd like to check I've understood whats been said with following example

XYZ

ABCDE

XYZ facing down, ABCDE are facing up. The two groups are parallel. Can the whole group ABCDE go forward into contact for free because some units are within 1UD of enemy? Or does E have to be left behind.

I've been playing the whole group can go forward in the charge.

lionelrus · Post� le: Mar Oct 13, 2015 2:31 pm Sujet du message:

you are right.
_________________
"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain.

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1537

Ramses II · Post� le: Mar Oct 13, 2015 10:03 pm Sujet du message:

Ok, I was trying to answer Nostrebor's original question with an example where there was an enemy in the frontal ZoC of a single unit from a group. Under "Spontaneous Charge" (P22), the group may charge for free.

In this illustration (though the diagram was poor) ABCD and XYZ are all single units in two groups facing each other at an oblique angle. A and X are in each other's ZoC.

Since A is mostly in the ZoC of X, "movements allowed in a ZoC" (P34) forces A (and its associated group) to wheel to make contact with X.
I was then trying to demonstrate that including D would cause the group to spend too much time wheeling, so D is left behind in this charge.
Finally A conforms to X by sliding left, and B slides left into Y. However C is more than 1UD away from Z, so is left out of contact with Z.

Unfortunately the diagram is too poor to show the various alternatives in movement and conforming directions and distances, so these will have to be described separately - if they are actually needed here.

I hope that clears up the questions raised, and I apologise for the delay caused by various technical problems at my end.