| Auteur |
Message |
Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021
Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
|
 Posté le: Sam Déc 04, 2021 7:58 pm Sujet du message: |
 |
I'm perfectly happy to use any interpretation that can be clearly explained and agreed upon.  |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
AlanCutner
Tribun
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014
Messages: 710
Localisation: Scotland
|
| Posté le: Sam Déc 04, 2021 8:01 pm Sujet du message: |
|
| Za Otlichiye a écrit: | ...by advancing the lead units straight forward and then moving the units located to the right and/or left behind the units which have advanced.
Only one of the three lagging units has moved behind a lead unit. |
All three have moved behind the lead unit, ie they are to the rear of the line extending the rear of that unit. |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1468
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
|
| Posté le: Sam Déc 04, 2021 10:25 pm Sujet du message: |
|
| Za Otlichiye a écrit: | | I'm perfectly happy to use any interpretation that can be clearly explained and agreed upon. |
I believe that even using a narrow interpretation of both phrases, this has been clearly explained and agreed upon in this thread already
_________________
www.madaxeman.com |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021
Messages: 500
Localisation: Texas
|
| Posté le: Sam Déc 04, 2021 11:53 pm Sujet du message: |
|
| madaxeman a écrit: | | Za Otlichiye a écrit: | | I'm perfectly happy to use any interpretation that can be clearly explained and agreed upon. |
I believe that even using a narrow interpretation of both phrases, this has been clearly explained and agreed upon in this thread already |
So to sum up, we are agreed that
ABCD “contracting†to
ACD
B
is not allowed and that the first unit to “drop back†must be A or D
Right? |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015
Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
|
| Posté le: Dim Déc 05, 2021 3:13 am Sujet du message: |
|
| Za Otlichiye a écrit: | I don't understand page 34 top diagram at all.
I don't see any way that can be considered a contraction of 1, nor a legal contraction of 3. Three elements should advance and the lone element fall in behind. |
The example on p.34 does NOT (claim to) illustrate a situation where a line contracts FULLY into a column. But it does illustrate the contraction rule as applied for HI (and using a 2UD HI move assumption). It is a contraction of 1 unit, not 3 units:
- the left most unit is defined by the player as "lead unit"
- it advances (c. 2 UD)
- the player is permitted to reduce the frontage by 1 unit (p.33 Contraction bullet 4. HI move of 2UD minus 1 = 1 unit contraction)
- thus the remaining 3 units slide 1 UD to their left and advance as illustrated
- the resulting formation is NOT a single group (so what?!)
Ipso facto:
- within 4 UD of the enemy only a line of 2 HI can contract fully into column
- over 4 UD from the enemy a line of 3 HI can contract fully into column |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
AlanCutner
Tribun
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014
Messages: 710
Localisation: Scotland
|
| Posté le: Dim Déc 05, 2021 9:50 am Sujet du message: |
|
| Citation: | | the resulting formation is NOT a single group (so what?!) |
Why isn't it a single group? |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021
Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
|
| Posté le: Dim Déc 05, 2021 5:34 pm Sujet du message: |
|
| Zoltan a écrit: | | Za Otlichiye a écrit: | I don't understand page 34 top diagram at all.
I don't see any way that can be considered a contraction of 1, nor a legal contraction of 3. Three elements should advance and the lone element fall in behind. |
The example on p.34 does NOT (claim to) illustrate a situation where a line contracts FULLY into a column. But it does illustrate the contraction rule as applied for HI (and using a 2UD HI move assumption). It is a contraction of 1 unit, not 3 units:
- the left most unit is defined by the player as "lead unit"
- it advances (c. 2 UD) |
Well at this point the frontal width has gone from 4 units to 1 unit. Be that as it may...
| Citation: | - the player is permitted to reduce the frontage by 1 unit (p.33 Contraction bullet 4. HI move of 2UD minus 1 = 1 unit contraction)
- thus the remaining 3 units slide 1 UD to their left and advance as illustrated |
Note that "1 UD" is not a restriction. There are no restrictions on how how following units must move. When the front rank is contracted then you have a natural limn on where the rest of the units fill in. Without it, there is no prohibition, other than common sense, on these remaining units, say, sliding 3 UD to their left. The rules are underspecified when multiple ranks are concerned. There is no indication how much "packing in" would be allowed.
| Citation: | | - the resulting formation is NOT a single group (so what?!) |
As Alan points out, yes this is a group. Implicit in the group move rules is that the end result must remain a group, although deformed by contraction.
| Citation: | Ipso facto:
- within 4 UD of the enemy only a line of 2 HI can contract fully into column
- over 4 UD from the enemy a line of 3 HI can contract fully into column |
|
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
|
| Posté le: Lun Déc 06, 2021 12:03 am Sujet du message: |
|
The diagram on P34 is clear IMO. But to be crystal clear;
- The top diagram describes Heavy Infantry which only have a movement of 2UD (inside 4UD of the enemy).
Since Contraction requires 1UD to perform, the group can only contract by 1 unit. The player chooses which unit is the "lead" unit from any of A-D, and the others slide sideways or remain stationary. Eg
ABCD becoming
. B
. ACD is also permissible
- The lower diagram describes the contraction of a group of cavalry, which have a movement allowance of 4UD.
Here there are three different options; to contract by 3, 2 or 1 units, while the other units fall in behind the "lead" unit(s). Put another way, the player selects the number of lead units up to the maximum contraction permitted (3). These lead units must retain integrity to comply with rules for groups while the "following" units slide sideways behind the leaders, and are NOT required to maintain group integrity. EG
ABCD can become
. B
. A
. D
. C
=========== or
AB
CD
or
CD
AB
=========== or
. BCD
. A
===========
Note
ACD
B
is NOT legal because the group of 'leaders' ACD has not retained it's integrity during the move.
Is that sufficient for everyone ???? |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021
Messages: 500
Localisation: Texas
|
| Posté le: Lun Déc 06, 2021 2:04 am Sujet du message: |
|
| Ramses II a écrit: | The diagram on P34 is clear IMO. But to be crystal clear;
- The top diagram describes Heavy Infantry which only have a movement of 2UD (inside 4UD of the enemy).
Since Contraction requires 1UD to perform, the group can only contract by 1 unit. The player chooses which unit is the "lead" unit from any of A-D, and the others slide sideways or remain stationary. Eg
ABCD becoming
. B
. ACD is also permissible
…(snip Cv example)
Note
ACD
B
is NOT legal because the group of 'leaders' ACD has not retained it's integrity during the move.
Is that sufficient for everyone ???? |
Thanks for clarifying this.
But (in the HI example) having BCD advance forward and A slide over behind B would be legal, right? Thus resulting in
BCD
A
(All units facing up)
A contracting group is not limited* to how many “leaders†it can have, just how many “subsequent units†can drop back in the formation (movements allowance in UDs -1)
(*Well I guess it can’t have more than 5 as a group can’t be more than 6 wide and one has to drop back in any contraction.) |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
|
| Posté le: Lun Déc 06, 2021 3:54 am Sujet du message: |
|
| KevinD a écrit: | Â Thanks for clarifying this.
But (in the HI example) having BCD advance forward and A slide over behind B would be legal, right? |
Correct  |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
|
FAQ
Rechercher
Liste des Membres
Groupes d'utilisateurs
S'enregistrer
Profil
Se connecter pour vérifier ses messages privés
Connexion
