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Impetuous move/charge question
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions V3
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duck2744
Barbare


Inscrit le: 26 Sep 2017
Messages: 22
MessagePosté le: Mar Juil 02, 2019 5:22 pm    Sujet du message: Impetuous move/charge question Répondre en citant
Hi

Consider the following:

EEEEEEXXXXXGGGGG
EEEEEEXXXXXGGGGG
FFFFFF FFFFFFF
FFFFFF FFFFFFF

E and G = enemy
F = friendly units
X = impetuous friendly unit

Impetuous friend 'X' destroyed enemy to front and had to pursue one UD in previous move.
Can unit 'X' in its next turn/wheel onto the flank of enemy unit 'E'?

If it can does it cost 1 or 2 CP since it is impetuous?

Thanks

Philip
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1529
MessagePosté le: Mar Juil 02, 2019 5:44 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
So the answer is "very likely" no.

It depends on the EXACT position of the bases.

A base is usually 1 UD deep (warwagons are 2 UD deep for example). the impetuous unit pursued 1 UD.

When the impetuous unit wheels it will be behind the enemy unit. And you can only wheel 90 degrees. So the impetuous unit cannot contact the unit with a wheel.

Therefore it must turn 90 degrees (quarter turn) and impetuous units are unmanuverable therefore 2 CP.

HOWEVER

Let's say you did not start lined up.

So the impetuous unit after its pursuit is not that far back. Let's say the unit it routed was 1/2 a UD in front of the others. Therefore after its pursuit the impetuous unit's front edge is 1/2 UD from the rear of the enemy units. Then a wheel of 90 degrees can be made that only costs 1 CP. And it counts in combat the same as above.

Note: This is in the FAQ if you would like more.
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Ramses II
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
MessagePosté le: Mar Juil 02, 2019 10:00 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
As Hazelnark says, the timing, facing and position of the units are key. (I am also assuming your diagram has been distorted by the way the forum works).  

The following answers are based on this interpretation of your diagram:-

 . .EEXXGG
AAFF

 

1. Units only pursue in their own phase. So GG would have the opportunity to attack the flank of XX in the other player’s turn. 

2. Assuming the opponent did nothing (or that this situation had arisen in a different way), XX could attack either EE or GG.
  • Attacking EE would require paying CP, because EE is fighting FF frontally. However it could conform for free against GG because GG is not fighting. 
  • XX may either turn or wheel to attack an enemy unit on a flank. As Hazelbark says, if the unit is still in contact by a corner after wheeling, then it can conform. Otherwise it would have to turn to face the flank.
  • Conforming is free, but wheeling costs 1CP. Turning is a difficult manoeuvre for impetuous units, and thus costs +1 CP.
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madaxeman
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
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Localisation: Londres Centraal.
MessagePosté le: Mar Juil 02, 2019 10:33 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Ramses II a écrit:

The following answers are based on this interpretation of your diagram:-

 . .EEXXGG
AAFF
 
[*]Attacking EE would require paying CP, because EE is fighting FF frontally. However it could conform for free against GG because GG is not fighting. 


Conforming after a Melee p55 (i think..) says that to conform for free you must start in a position where you are touching enemy, but neither in melee nor supporting friends in melee.

XX is supporting FF, so it's going to be a 2-pip move to hit GG
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martix027
Frondeur


Inscrit le: 04 Aoû 2019
Messages: 1
MessagePosté le: Sam Aoû 10, 2019 2:01 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hazelbark a écrit:
So the answer is "very likely" no.

It depends on the EXACT position of the bases.

A base is usually 1 UD deep (warwagons are 2 UD deep for example). the impetuous unit pursued 1 UD.

When the impetuous unit wheels it will be behind the enemy unit. And you can only wheel 90 degrees. So the impetuous unit cannot contact the unit with a wheel.

Therefore it must turn 90 degrees (quarter turn) and meilleurs credits immobiliers impetuous units are unmanuverable therefore 2 CP.

HOWEVER

Let's say you did not start lined up.

So the impetuous unit after its pursuit is not that far back. Let's say the unit it routed was 1/2 a UD in front of the others. Therefore after its pursuit the impetuous unit's front edge is 1/2 UD from the rear of the enemy units. Then a wheel of 90 degrees can be made that only costs 1 CP. And it counts in combat the same as above.

Note: This is in the FAQ if you would like more.

Thank you for this announcement, I find the information you provide very interesting and correct.
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MessagePosté le: Mer Aoû 14, 2019 4:53 pm    Sujet du message: Impetuous move/charge question Répondre en citant
I dont understand this question. Dangerous says if you move through or perform an action you suffer D31 at end of that action. Are you asking if it would trigger twice because the move IS an action?? If so, no. Its one instance.
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daveallen
Tribun


Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016
Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
MessagePosté le: Jeu Aoû 15, 2019 10:23 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Ramses II a écrit:
. .EEXXGG
AAFF

However it [XX] could conform for free against GG because GG is not fighting. 


No it can't because:
madaxeman a écrit:
Conforming after a Melee p55 (i think..) says that to conform for free you must start in a position where you are touching enemy, but neither in melee nor supporting friends in melee.

Almost right it's "nor in a position to support friends in melee."

The distinction here comes from cases such as:

XAY
BC

where ABC are friends facing upscreen and XY are enemy facing down and all are lined up.

Only one of C and A need actually support B, but both are in a position to support B so neither can conform on Y.

Unless, of course [Rolling Eyes], the French rules say something different.

Dave
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