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duck2744
Barbare
Inscrit le: 26 Sep 2017 Messages: 22
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Posté le: Mer Juil 03, 2019 9:13 am Sujet du message: Furiuos Charge and Armour |
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Hi
The rules say that that the armour adjustment in combat does not apply in a furious charge.
I can understand that the unit being charged does not get this armour bonus. But does the armour adjustment apply to the furious charger if he was losing the combat?
Thanks
Philip |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014 Messages: 1468
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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Posté le: Mer Juil 03, 2019 11:30 am Sujet du message: |
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duck2744 a écrit: | Hi
The rules say that that the armour adjustment in combat does not apply in a furious charge.
I can understand that the unit being charged does not get this armour bonus. But does the armour adjustment apply to the furious charger if he was losing the combat?
Thanks
Philip |
The QRS says... "Does not apply against elephants or if enemy has furious charge in first phase." (emphasis added) _________________ www.madaxeman.com |
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duck2744
Barbare
Inscrit le: 26 Sep 2017 Messages: 22
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Posté le: Jeu Juil 04, 2019 7:37 am Sujet du message: |
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OK thanks. |
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Adrian Clarke
Gladiateur
Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2017 Messages: 37
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Posté le: Jeu Juil 04, 2019 7:49 am Sujet du message: |
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I was just about to ask this question as well. Spooky!
My angle on this was about an armoured furious charging unit fighting an armoured opponent whose armour effect is negated in the first bound of melee. To clarify, if the furious charging unit loses the combat will it get benefit of better armour in the first round? (Not in subsequent rounds, obviously).
Many thanks
Adrian |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014 Messages: 1468
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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Posté le: Jeu Juil 04, 2019 9:28 pm Sujet du message: |
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The saving benefit of armour does not apply in the first round if the unit who beats you has furious charge.  That’s basically it.Â
EDIT.  Erm, no it’s not it, I (and others) were Wrong! _________________ www.madaxeman.com
Dernière édition par madaxeman le Sam Juil 06, 2019 11:34 pm; édité 1 fois |
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duck2744
Barbare
Inscrit le: 26 Sep 2017 Messages: 22
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Posté le: Ven Juil 05, 2019 8:54 am Sujet du message: |
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[u]With regards to.....
My angle on this was about an armoured furious charging unit fighting an armoured opponent whose armour effect is negated in the first bound of melee. To clarify, if the furious charging unit loses the combat will it get benefit of better armour in the first round? (Not in subsequent rounds, obviously).
So from what madaxeman is saying, I understand that....
The armoured furious charging unit does get armour bonus if it losses the combat against a unit that is not a furious charging unit that has lessor armour.
Regards
Philip |
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kevinj
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Fév 2017 Messages: 324
Localisation: Chesterfield, Derbyshire, UK
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Posté le: Ven Juil 05, 2019 9:07 am Sujet du message: |
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That's not how I read it. The modifier has is for having better armour than your opponent. The fact that having furious charge cancels this benefit in the first round does not give the furious chargers better armour. So if they lose they don't count the modifier. |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014 Messages: 1468
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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Posté le: Ven Juil 05, 2019 3:43 pm Sujet du message: |
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kevinj a écrit: | That's not how I read it. The modifier has is for having better armour than your opponent. The fact that having furious charge cancels this benefit in the first round does not give the furious chargers better armour. So if they lose they don't count the modifier. |
Thats my take as well. You can only ever claim the 'better armour' armour bonus in situations when you lose, and if your opponent has furious charge you can't even claim it in that specific situation. Its also a 'better armour' bonus, not an 'armour' bonus.
Whether you have furious charge or not is irrelevant to being able to claim better armour. _________________ www.madaxeman.com |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Ven Juil 05, 2019 6:38 pm Sujet du message: |
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I agree with the others.
I don’t have the rules to hand, but my understanding is that the question of whether a unit has furious charge only applies when that unit wins a melee.Â
Where the unit with furious charge loses a melee, it cannot claim that it’s furious charge negated the enemy unit’s armour, and thus claim to have ‘better armour’ thus saving a hit. |
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Mike Bennett
Centurion
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017 Messages: 489
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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Posté le: Ven Juil 05, 2019 9:13 pm Sujet du message: |
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How do these opinions fit with the rules and faq which both talk about the OPPONENT. The faq pg. 16 specifically says that the the furious charger gets armour benefit if he looses since the other guys armour is ignored, win or loose
Rules
The armour and heavy armour abilities do not apply during the first round of a melee if the OPPONENT has the furious charge ability.
FAQ pg 16
Q : The Armour/Heavy Armour capability doesn’t count during the first round if the opponent has a Furious charge. What happens if the opponent with a Furious charge also has Armour and loses the melee?
A : Then, the opponent’s Armour counts towards the final result, because it’s only the target of the charge that doesn’t get it for the first round. 16 |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Ven Juil 05, 2019 11:22 pm Sujet du message: |
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Impetuous MC charge armoured legionaries and win the initial melee. The legionaries can NOT claim the heavier armour bonus to mitigate their loss.
Impetuous HC charge armoured legionaries and lose the initial melee (edited). Because the legionaries do not count their armour in the first round of melee against an opponent with furious charge ability, the HC Has heavier armour than the legionaries and therefore can count the heavier armour bonus as a loss mitigant.
Dernière édition par Zoltan le Sam Juil 06, 2019 7:37 am; édité 1 fois |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014 Messages: 1468
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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Posté le: Sam Juil 06, 2019 7:10 am Sujet du message: |
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Mike Bennett a écrit: | How do these opinions fit with the rules and faq which both talk about the OPPONENT. The faq pg. 16 specifically says that the the furious charger gets armour benefit if he looses since the other guys armour is ignored, win or loose
Rules
The armour and heavy armour abilities do not apply during the first round of a melee if the OPPONENT has the furious charge ability.
FAQ pg 16
Q : The Armour/Heavy Armour capability doesn’t count during the first round if the opponent has a Furious charge. What happens if the opponent with a Furious charge also has Armour and loses the melee?
A : Then, the opponent’s Armour counts towards the final result, because it’s only the target of the charge that doesn’t get it for the first round. 16 |
Hmmmm.  That is different to how we’ve all understood it previously, isn’t it? Â
The wording is still a bit clunky, however if that’s not a mistranslation it might be better to change the wording on the FAQ to something like “All troops are always treated as having no armour in the first round of Melee against opponents with Furious Charge†_________________ www.madaxeman.com |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Sam Juil 06, 2019 11:40 am Sujet du message: |
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V4 will merge the FAQ with the text, and may include other changes suggested in the V4 thread.
Evidently this is one of the bits need to be checked / verified in that process. |
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lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009 Messages: 4701
Localisation: paris
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Posté le: Sam Juil 06, 2019 7:41 pm Sujet du message: |
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Adrian Clarke a écrit: | I was just about to ask this question as well. Spooky!
. To clarify, if the furious charging unit loses the combat will it get benefit of better armour in the first round? (Not in subsequent rounds, obviously).
Many thanks
Adrian |
Yes . _________________ "Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain. |
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